Aime's Story
"There have been many holocausts. If you look at the statistics and data, it’s like a bell-shaped curve. There have been many, but the 6 million killed during WWII was the peak. That is why so many discuss this one because it was the biggest. But it happened many times before, and it has happened after as well."
“I was robbed of my childhood. I didn’t get a chance to play games like you did, softball or any other type of sport. We couldn’t do stuff like that.”
“I was robbed of my childhood. I didn’t get a chance to play games like you did, softball or any other type of sport. We couldn’t do stuff like that.”
What is one thing that you want to pass on and teach those who are younger today about tolerance and about the Holocaust?
This what you are talking about has nothing specific to do with Judaism. This is something universal. Tolerance and acceptance of diversity, you see, the answer—I was 6 years in graduate school—I was talking about international business strategies and things like this and this fit exactly what I did. I will give you some key words that I use and stuff, you see, I made a dissertation on this subject. Number one, when you are talking about people or things, you should not use good or bad. Good or bad is extremely relative. The right word is different. They are different. And I taught them this in the PHD program. You go to Africa, and they do not speak English, so you automatically speak to them like a baby. They have the same intelligence as you, but we don’t communicate because of the different language. Our aspirations are identical. They want school, food, shelter. Everybody in this world that is human wants exactly the same thing as you. So what is different? The methodology about which they require resources. There is need and desire. Need is to survive and desire is two tvs. But everybody wants exactly the same thing. So what makes a difference in what you do? The matter and the culture supporting the manner in which you acquire the same thing. You acquire the same objective. It is not good or bad because you want the same thing. What make it good or bad is your point of view. So we are talking the relativity of Einstein. It is the same thing from any point of view. It is different. They are different—not any better or worse. When you say something is shitty, they are saying the same thing about you. In the fact that you want exactly the same thing, but your methods to get it are different. So the key is very simple. Good or bad. They are different. And then you go to the culture or background and this is the difference. So you have to start with the culture before you can be tolerant. You are intolerant because you don’t know. You are intolerant because you do not understand the stupid things they do. The moment you get the history, and you know, they are something different. You are going to go to Europe one day, go to Versailles, and you going to see it is nice, and you will have a tour guide explain to you the room with few nice furniture, and it will become alive with people and history, and certainly this is the same thing with culture.
So tolerance, with the Jews, what do they see? They see Jews who dress dirty and what do they think? I never had this problem because today it is different Anti-Semitism today is based on the picture of the ghetto, the Jewish ghetto, with the big nose. They don’t show you my picture in my Israeli uniform with a gorgeous girl. And they tell you to watch out. If you goto France today, you will see, the Jews they have problems with, but the Israelis, first class. They do make the distinction between what is Jewish and what is Israeli. But this makes sense. So Israeli are strong and have a bigger and better army than the France air force. And they get everybody. Those people who killed the athletes at Munich, we got every single one of them. We always get the people. I was in a special unit and wounded three times. My son was in the army, my grandson, some 25,00 volunteer and many don’t come back. So this is big distinction today. There are anti-Semites who don’t talk about Israel but they talk about the Jews and the ghettos. Israeli doesn’t care. The UN is blaming Israel for everything. Maricopa County is 15,000 square miles. Israel is only 9,000 square miles, only 2/3 the size. You tell this to your friends, and they won’t believe you.
In order to be tolerant you have to educate people. It is based on the education and the understanding of whatever it is. And then when you understand, you ask why it is different. It is like when you eat something, it is no good. Why is it no good, because it’s different.
They didn’t give the Jews a chance to be different. The Jews became what they are if you study history the way it should be, the way they don’t teach you. Do you know why a Jew is known to do, (stereotyped as) of the money grabber. How come? They did this? I will tell you where this comes from. In the middle age, the church dogma was you can lend money but you can’t take interest. It was against the religion, against Christianity. It’s against Jewish law also. They wanted the money and they wanted to collect tax, but the church couldn’t do so. So what did they do? They told the Jews, we will tolerate you, but you will be our tax collectors and money lenders. You will give it back to us, and we will pay you for this in addition to whatever you can steal on the side. And this was a Jew working for the church. So they use their head instead of their muscle. So this is why the Jews are what we are because we were forced. In the antiquity when the Jews became a people. I accept what history says, not the bible. So the Jews appeared in the world in 1700 BCE. They became a recognized political identity in Canaan in the mountain in approximately 1700 BCE. So this is what happened to the Jewish people. As they were put in the ghettos in Europe because they wanted to keep the only thing that kept them together because in their prayer, all the time they turn to Jerusalem, and we say next year in Jerusalem, this is what kept them going. But they were always enclosed in themselves. And this is why we are different. And the original Jews were soldiers. This is a true Jewish people. They don’t fit, so they are a target. They are different.
Simply put, you can tolerate something if you understand what it is. If you don’t understand what it is, it is not good or bad, you are afraid of it. During the war, they were afraid of Jews, they want to get rid of Jews because the Jews were the intellectual, owned the business and the money—they were the brain. The Jew was a competition to the church. But the Jews were in the ghetto. They were slaves. They were not a free people. They were peasants and muyacks. They were indentured to the land and they belonged to the lord of the land. The guy could come and kill them whenever. They were never free. So when they say a Jew did it to you, they go and kill a few Jews, and they were happy for a few years. And then they killed a few more a couple of years later. And when there were more problems, they killed more Jews.
This what you are talking about has nothing specific to do with Judaism. This is something universal. Tolerance and acceptance of diversity, you see, the answer—I was 6 years in graduate school—I was talking about international business strategies and things like this and this fit exactly what I did. I will give you some key words that I use and stuff, you see, I made a dissertation on this subject. Number one, when you are talking about people or things, you should not use good or bad. Good or bad is extremely relative. The right word is different. They are different. And I taught them this in the PHD program. You go to Africa, and they do not speak English, so you automatically speak to them like a baby. They have the same intelligence as you, but we don’t communicate because of the different language. Our aspirations are identical. They want school, food, shelter. Everybody in this world that is human wants exactly the same thing as you. So what is different? The methodology about which they require resources. There is need and desire. Need is to survive and desire is two tvs. But everybody wants exactly the same thing. So what makes a difference in what you do? The matter and the culture supporting the manner in which you acquire the same thing. You acquire the same objective. It is not good or bad because you want the same thing. What make it good or bad is your point of view. So we are talking the relativity of Einstein. It is the same thing from any point of view. It is different. They are different—not any better or worse. When you say something is shitty, they are saying the same thing about you. In the fact that you want exactly the same thing, but your methods to get it are different. So the key is very simple. Good or bad. They are different. And then you go to the culture or background and this is the difference. So you have to start with the culture before you can be tolerant. You are intolerant because you don’t know. You are intolerant because you do not understand the stupid things they do. The moment you get the history, and you know, they are something different. You are going to go to Europe one day, go to Versailles, and you going to see it is nice, and you will have a tour guide explain to you the room with few nice furniture, and it will become alive with people and history, and certainly this is the same thing with culture.
So tolerance, with the Jews, what do they see? They see Jews who dress dirty and what do they think? I never had this problem because today it is different Anti-Semitism today is based on the picture of the ghetto, the Jewish ghetto, with the big nose. They don’t show you my picture in my Israeli uniform with a gorgeous girl. And they tell you to watch out. If you goto France today, you will see, the Jews they have problems with, but the Israelis, first class. They do make the distinction between what is Jewish and what is Israeli. But this makes sense. So Israeli are strong and have a bigger and better army than the France air force. And they get everybody. Those people who killed the athletes at Munich, we got every single one of them. We always get the people. I was in a special unit and wounded three times. My son was in the army, my grandson, some 25,00 volunteer and many don’t come back. So this is big distinction today. There are anti-Semites who don’t talk about Israel but they talk about the Jews and the ghettos. Israeli doesn’t care. The UN is blaming Israel for everything. Maricopa County is 15,000 square miles. Israel is only 9,000 square miles, only 2/3 the size. You tell this to your friends, and they won’t believe you.
In order to be tolerant you have to educate people. It is based on the education and the understanding of whatever it is. And then when you understand, you ask why it is different. It is like when you eat something, it is no good. Why is it no good, because it’s different.
They didn’t give the Jews a chance to be different. The Jews became what they are if you study history the way it should be, the way they don’t teach you. Do you know why a Jew is known to do, (stereotyped as) of the money grabber. How come? They did this? I will tell you where this comes from. In the middle age, the church dogma was you can lend money but you can’t take interest. It was against the religion, against Christianity. It’s against Jewish law also. They wanted the money and they wanted to collect tax, but the church couldn’t do so. So what did they do? They told the Jews, we will tolerate you, but you will be our tax collectors and money lenders. You will give it back to us, and we will pay you for this in addition to whatever you can steal on the side. And this was a Jew working for the church. So they use their head instead of their muscle. So this is why the Jews are what we are because we were forced. In the antiquity when the Jews became a people. I accept what history says, not the bible. So the Jews appeared in the world in 1700 BCE. They became a recognized political identity in Canaan in the mountain in approximately 1700 BCE. So this is what happened to the Jewish people. As they were put in the ghettos in Europe because they wanted to keep the only thing that kept them together because in their prayer, all the time they turn to Jerusalem, and we say next year in Jerusalem, this is what kept them going. But they were always enclosed in themselves. And this is why we are different. And the original Jews were soldiers. This is a true Jewish people. They don’t fit, so they are a target. They are different.
Simply put, you can tolerate something if you understand what it is. If you don’t understand what it is, it is not good or bad, you are afraid of it. During the war, they were afraid of Jews, they want to get rid of Jews because the Jews were the intellectual, owned the business and the money—they were the brain. The Jew was a competition to the church. But the Jews were in the ghetto. They were slaves. They were not a free people. They were peasants and muyacks. They were indentured to the land and they belonged to the lord of the land. The guy could come and kill them whenever. They were never free. So when they say a Jew did it to you, they go and kill a few Jews, and they were happy for a few years. And then they killed a few more a couple of years later. And when there were more problems, they killed more Jews.
You mentioned once how you stayed in a church, can you talk about that a bit?
I was raised in a church. During the war, in order to be saved, you had to be catholic, not Jewish. It’s not that we were raised, we were just taking part in the church ritual like any good French man. This is it. I had a different name, Bertrek. Aime is a typical French name. When I was born, you couldn’t give any name to a kid. There were in France 365 official names you could give. Aime, the name for September the 13th, is a saint. It was Napoleon code. You could only give one of those 365 French names. Period. You couldn’t use anything else. So I am named after a Saint. And I went to Church every Sunday. We learned all the mass in Latin, because in France, Latin was a subject we studied. So yes, we were there in order to be saved we went to church like anybody else and they left you alone.
I was raised in a church. During the war, in order to be saved, you had to be catholic, not Jewish. It’s not that we were raised, we were just taking part in the church ritual like any good French man. This is it. I had a different name, Bertrek. Aime is a typical French name. When I was born, you couldn’t give any name to a kid. There were in France 365 official names you could give. Aime, the name for September the 13th, is a saint. It was Napoleon code. You could only give one of those 365 French names. Period. You couldn’t use anything else. So I am named after a Saint. And I went to Church every Sunday. We learned all the mass in Latin, because in France, Latin was a subject we studied. So yes, we were there in order to be saved we went to church like anybody else and they left you alone.
How did you get into the church?
Well, I don’t remember exactly, this is the problem. All I remember that I was here, and then I was here, but how I got from here to here, I don’t know. We were all Jewish kids. All the teachers were nuns, some were ok, some were bad. All the people were very cruel with children. But there were some good teachers. We were taken care of, but still during the night, the Germans came, and they knew we were Jewish despite, and they grabbed whoever they could grab. And I was very lucky.
Well, I don’t remember exactly, this is the problem. All I remember that I was here, and then I was here, but how I got from here to here, I don’t know. We were all Jewish kids. All the teachers were nuns, some were ok, some were bad. All the people were very cruel with children. But there were some good teachers. We were taken care of, but still during the night, the Germans came, and they knew we were Jewish despite, and they grabbed whoever they could grab. And I was very lucky.
And then was it from there you went to Israel?
Well, after the war it was a different story. You were reunited with whatever family you had left. You know, they didn’t kill everybody. And then there were a lot of organizations, so there was an agency that took care of kids. And so immediately, they sent me to Palestine. Palestine was at war at the time. I met Golda (my wife) in Palestine. She was cute and 14 years old at the time. We got married 10 years later. Those were Jewish organizations (OSEI – stands for organization to save the Jew). It started in 1905 in St. Petersburg when some Russian Jewish doctors organized to take care of the poor Jews. And then because of the Pogrom, they moved to France. This is the only organization that I give money to today because they saved my ass. And a lot of those young guys—this was a Jewish underground—they saved a lot of children. Many were found and shot and killed. It was tough. So this is what happens
And we moved. I didn’t finish grammar school or high school, but I have a PHD, so what? I studied everything at night by myself. The way in Europe for the hidden children, this is what I was, we moved a lot. How we did it? I don’t know. There were older people who organized it. We were children. We knew if the German catch you, you were in deep bananas. No one knew about the concentration camps. We didn’t know what happened in Germany. Some, but not many knew. Even the German army, not all of them were Nazis. The regular German army were ok. Some of them even tried to kill Hitler a couple of times, I don’t know why they didn’t succeed. But this is what happened. We were moving because of the organization that took care of us. At the end of the war, the other organization took me to Palestine. I had family in Palestine that I didn’t know. They took care of me.
Well, after the war it was a different story. You were reunited with whatever family you had left. You know, they didn’t kill everybody. And then there were a lot of organizations, so there was an agency that took care of kids. And so immediately, they sent me to Palestine. Palestine was at war at the time. I met Golda (my wife) in Palestine. She was cute and 14 years old at the time. We got married 10 years later. Those were Jewish organizations (OSEI – stands for organization to save the Jew). It started in 1905 in St. Petersburg when some Russian Jewish doctors organized to take care of the poor Jews. And then because of the Pogrom, they moved to France. This is the only organization that I give money to today because they saved my ass. And a lot of those young guys—this was a Jewish underground—they saved a lot of children. Many were found and shot and killed. It was tough. So this is what happens
And we moved. I didn’t finish grammar school or high school, but I have a PHD, so what? I studied everything at night by myself. The way in Europe for the hidden children, this is what I was, we moved a lot. How we did it? I don’t know. There were older people who organized it. We were children. We knew if the German catch you, you were in deep bananas. No one knew about the concentration camps. We didn’t know what happened in Germany. Some, but not many knew. Even the German army, not all of them were Nazis. The regular German army were ok. Some of them even tried to kill Hitler a couple of times, I don’t know why they didn’t succeed. But this is what happened. We were moving because of the organization that took care of us. At the end of the war, the other organization took me to Palestine. I had family in Palestine that I didn’t know. They took care of me.
Words From Golda, Aime's Wife
My father left Germany in 1935 because he was religious. Not all of his brothers were. And he was a bookkeeper and the Nazis, some of them, wouldn't pay him unless he came on Shabbat to collect the money, and so my father said I’ll leave and his family was so upset. How could you leave Germany after hundreds of years of living there for so many years , they asked. Don’t leave! And they were very upset.
And my Grandfather left in 1939 and he saw the Kristallnacht. Right from the window he saw it. And he decided to leave. He was lucky he could leave. So he left with one son. The others said no way, Germany is our country. We can’t leave. So my grandfather left and they stayed. And we never heard from them any more. He did the smart thing leaving. Luckily he could leave. I don't know how he was able to leave. And he wasn’t very religious, but my grandmother was. He was conservative, and he said that’s it. He was leaving.
Aime didn’t go to school for five years. Later when we were visiting, one time we came to his house when we were riding bikes. And I said, I want to see one of the places where you were hiding. So we went to the village and rode the bikes to the place. And we were walking around the village and we saw a farmer. Aime said, what happened to the school. The farmer responded, why don’t you come to my home and talk with my wife, she went to the school, although she is not Jewish. She had a list of the children that studied there, and he was one of them. She explained how her uncle was a police man and one evening he said, the Germans are in the next village. Take all of the Jewish kids during the night and take them to another village, otherwise they will be killed. And that is how he was saved.
My father left Germany in 1935 because he was religious. Not all of his brothers were. And he was a bookkeeper and the Nazis, some of them, wouldn't pay him unless he came on Shabbat to collect the money, and so my father said I’ll leave and his family was so upset. How could you leave Germany after hundreds of years of living there for so many years , they asked. Don’t leave! And they were very upset.
And my Grandfather left in 1939 and he saw the Kristallnacht. Right from the window he saw it. And he decided to leave. He was lucky he could leave. So he left with one son. The others said no way, Germany is our country. We can’t leave. So my grandfather left and they stayed. And we never heard from them any more. He did the smart thing leaving. Luckily he could leave. I don't know how he was able to leave. And he wasn’t very religious, but my grandmother was. He was conservative, and he said that’s it. He was leaving.
Aime didn’t go to school for five years. Later when we were visiting, one time we came to his house when we were riding bikes. And I said, I want to see one of the places where you were hiding. So we went to the village and rode the bikes to the place. And we were walking around the village and we saw a farmer. Aime said, what happened to the school. The farmer responded, why don’t you come to my home and talk with my wife, she went to the school, although she is not Jewish. She had a list of the children that studied there, and he was one of them. She explained how her uncle was a police man and one evening he said, the Germans are in the next village. Take all of the Jewish kids during the night and take them to another village, otherwise they will be killed. And that is how he was saved.
Avniel, Aime. Personal Interview. 16 Jun. 2014.
Avniel, Golda. Personal Interview. 16 Jun. 2014.
Avniel, Golda. Personal Interview. 16 Jun. 2014.